THE TV CARPENTER : Home Makeovers with Wayne Perrey

Wayne chats with Lucy Tiffney, Maximalist artists and designer from BBC 'Great Interior Design Challenge'

March 20, 2020 Wayne / Lucy Tiffney Season 3 Episode 29
THE TV CARPENTER : Home Makeovers with Wayne Perrey
Wayne chats with Lucy Tiffney, Maximalist artists and designer from BBC 'Great Interior Design Challenge'
Show Notes Transcript

This week I chat with BBC runner up of 'Great Interior Design Challenge'
Lucy Tiffany,
We discuss being a true maximalist and celebrate the launch of her new cook wear in Debenhams.

Sponsor: To take advantage of the generous 15% discount from my sponsor Thorndown, please visit Discount code: TVCarpenter

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Music: "What's the Angle" by Shane Ivers

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spk_0:   0:03
on today's show, I'll be chatting with Lucy. Tiffany. They're super talented, maximalist artist and designer.

spk_1:   0:18
Well, like it gets so flattered that people so kind. People often say what you said that I've got such a distinctive style. I don't necessarily feel that myself. You can't see it in yourself. You just doing sort of Aaron. Yeah.

spk_0:   0:39
Hello and welcome to the TV Carpenter. My name is Wayne Perry. Now this is a podcast where I interview my friends from the World of Interior design and garden makeover shows. I'm very fortunate that I've spent the last eight years working on these shows, including Love Your Garden Without on Titch Marsh, Andi into Design Masters and the Great into Design Challenge, to name a few. So I quit the podcast, so I get to interview my friends so people who you will have seen on TV some of the presenters but also some of the contestants from the makeover shows a garden shows but also people from behind the scenes in every makeover show. There's some great talent that you don't always see in front of the camera, so I interview those. But the main reason I do this is so that you get to hear from some of the industry finest about how to create your dream home. And here we are back for season three that, uh, we had a little bit of a break when we did a bit of a mop up of some of the best bits from Season two on Dhe. Then we had a week off and I had the week off because, well, everything that's just happened in the last couple of weeks has literally gone. Crazy thing. Everybody's world is flipped over on, determined for this podcast. Not to dwell too much on everything that's gone on with the coronavirus, but Thio just be uplifting and move you forward on Be a little bit of source of inspiration. That's the whole reason. But we have to admit that it has bean really, really tricky. Everything has changed particular in my world. If you haven't listen to the podcast before, you'll have heard me talking quite a lot about the fact that I'll be working at the little home show. I was gonna be recording these podcasts live. My first guest was gonna be my boss, Mr Allen Titch Marsh. I have guests. Michela. Good to him and Kate Wilson Smythe. Not about the house, too. Well, Gee, CDO has had some amazing guests and friends. We're gonna be recorded live for these podcasts at the Idol Home show, but it got postponed. So the official line is that the ideal home show isn't cancelled, its being postponed to a later date. So as soon as we get some information about that, we will. We'll know when we're gonna be recording it. But it's funny. I had one of those days where literally I found out that TV shows I was gonna be working on a being postponed Those two shows that, you know, we're all booked in the Idol Home show. All kind of got postponed. And then I suddenly realized that that day is last Tuesday. Three of the shows I have already worked on filmed were being shown on TV, So I had one day where I was on TV. You'll have seen my own T shirt on TV three times. So they repeated shows of the Great Interior Design Challenge on on BBC two in the daytime. Then in the evening, Harry did love your garden without teach March, and we made over a beautiful kind of rest might care for tthe e elderly in in Croydon, which is around the corner from where I live. So it was lovely. That was on an eight o'clock and then nine o'clock. There was a new show on the new free view channel Hate HGTV called Cash in the Spare Room, which is with Max McMurdo on DDE. Sarah Maur, You're good friends. Money built on that as well. So you know, if my mom never gets a chance to see me, she got to see me three times on TV in that one day, Alex said. That was the same day that it found out. I'd lost out on three jobs that got postponed. So swings and roundabouts. But like I said, I'm determined to be positive. This podcast is a positive, and it's the one constant that I've got. And it's the one thing I loved doing the most. So I'm glad and back for Season three. But also who's back for Season three is my sponsor. Thorne Down Paint Thorne down dot co dot UK is their website on dhe? I been amazing, as always. They're spotted this podcast for another Siri's Onda. Also, they giving you guys 15% discount on any online purchases so you can go to their website and check out their new color range as well. I had a little chat with them, so there's a short one and 1/2 minute interview where we discussed things about their color charts and how they choose them and what the Ralph's system means. You've got an extensive color range, both heritage and modern colors, who comes up with the color charts for third down. That's being I'm I Love colors, panel of painting. So this is a nice way of me. Just I'm getting to play, Really. So for a new paint companies, very important tech Marone identity. So we use a lot of the colors that were from the thorn down, browned in so that squares with a more modern tones come from. But then also, the fact that we're dealing with it interior and exterior paints means you have to have those beautiful, most soft tones and heritage colors to go with it and to actually build a proper rounded color chart s Oh, yes, that's me, and he says only on your literature. You've got 1800 Ralph colors. What's Ralph? So rally is a German color system, basically on dhe. It means that, for instance, is used a lot in the construction and design trade. An architect so an architect will specify around 7016 which something like Gray. So it means that someone can build a new house with answer site Great Ralph. 7016 windows and door frames, Um, in U P v c. And then they can come to us and they can get the exact same color in there would paint a maze. It's a color system, Really? Then it it provides uniformity. So you say somebody, if somebody could come in, order that number from you even though it's not in your time. Yeah, definitely. So yes, so it complements color charts. So we basically have a rattle tin tin machine, and it doesn't really rattled design and Raoul classic colors. There you are. If you have a project coming up where you need a color match, then go to thorne down dot co dot UK. Type in the code TV carpenter, and you will get 15% discount on any of their online products. And it's a great ICO paint. Um, now the main event. The main event is my conversation and chat with a dear friend Lucy. Tiffany, Lucy. Tiffany was a contestant thing. She can't. She was a runner up. She was a finalist on Season three. She was amazing. There was certain parts of her design. She was very bold and college, but she didn't really show it that much on the interior design show. But she's now that's definitely known as a maximalist. When you see her prince, you will know exactly who she is. Andi, what was really exciting is a CZ. I was chatting with her the week before. She just launched a brand new range in Debenhams. So, bit like all a Kiely or all the Kylie, remember which way you say Now I've met her and I still don't know between handing you. She's created this tea set and she's got tea towels and oven gloves. It really bold big plant print, and it's all done by hand, quite crudely, but really a vibrant and loud and full on on dhe. This lady deserves everything she gets so we talked all about that. So here is my interview with my dear friend Lucy. Tiffany, Lucy. Tiffany, Thank you for coming on the TV Carpenter podcast.

spk_1:   8:31
Oh, you're so welcome.

spk_0:   8:34
Eyes being so great. And I feel like I keep seeing you popping up everywhere. Only literally. I texted yesterday, cause and the great interior design challenge that we worked on together was on TV, the repeating it and I was that you're on TV. How crazy is it to see you yourself on TV again? After all these years?

spk_1:   8:52
It's actually not a screen. Ji is the first time. And I got your text while I was watching it. I mean, it's still hard to see yourself, but I actually quite enjoy watching it back this time. God, it was exhausting. Just watch it

spk_0:   9:10
brings it all back. It brings it all back. I think I was your first build. I think your first ever episode was was with me. And from that word Go. We knew you were special and it was amazing to see your job. And

spk_1:   9:28
I love working with you on that 1st 1 You were amazing. Do you feel that bed floor wasn't fit to build that bridge.

spk_0:   9:39
Yes. I built a bridge so we could get in the room because we haven't finished. It would run out of paint or something. I was still wet things you do. We made it work. But for my listeners, who don't know you, Your your style is really distinctive for people who've never seen a new via work. Can you describe your your style for me, please?

spk_1:   9:57
Yes, I suppose. Well, I'm an artist, really That Andi, Zeina and I now concentrate on surface patent on designing wallpapers and home furnishings. But my style is very hand pain to Lee botanicals at the moment. So sort of giant plants and things. Very colorful.

spk_0:   10:20
It's very It's very large, like you do these. So you know your work. Did you let me get this right? So just going back a little bit. That New York your history? Were you a graphics teacher or an art teacher?

spk_1:   10:37
Freelance with that for a big for a number of years. And then when I have my kids, I retrained as a teacher. Lecturer s O. I was teaching textiles in an art college on I was always teaching them how to pay, you know, and not really doing enough of it myself. And then after the show that we just spoke now I think it just gave me the confidence to do my own style of work. Do you know what I

spk_0:   11:02
mean is

spk_1:   11:03
before I didn't feel

spk_0:   11:13
Yeah, and it's really it's really worked. So did you when you went on the Great Interior Design Challenge. Did you want to be an into designer? Is that the reason you went on the show?

spk_1:   11:23
I don't think I had massive expectations of the future when I did it, because it all happened so quickly. They kind of I put in the application and they rang me the next day to come and all the ship may, so I didn't really have enough time to think it through. I think I just thought, I want to be able to shut, enjoy doing the program and show a few of my skills. And then I think actually, after the show, right, I want to be an interior design. Yeah, and then very quickly, kind of realized that it wasn't the creative enough for May. It's creative enough for other people, but it wasn't hands on enough. So then I started painting murals and that kind of laid into the hand painting more of the hand painted in the wallpapers and the hat. So, yeah, that's when it kind of

spk_0:   12:15
so that your murals are are beautiful and I've seen them because I know your work so I can see it. It's like when you see a certain graffiti artist, you kind of noticed them everywhere on. I see your work has been featured in every magazine, but you wanted. The distinctive styles you have is where you'll have a really dark background, and then you're painting. Your flowers are quite big and bold and almost quite chalky is like, You know, when you see these kids blackboard paint but walls and they draw big, you draw big big patterns with that. Was that a choice to have like that? The dark background

spk_1:   12:49
get s again? It was an intentional it for it to beach like a chore wheel. But lots of people have said that my life that I think I'd always painted a lot on white backgrounds, you know it kicking in textile design back in the day, you would pay black paint, flowers and things on white paper on. Then I think I must have seen something somewhere at the time. And I thought, Well, I'm just gonna take that piece of paper black to start with and try in reverse. You know, suddenly the colors popped out. I think that was sort of showing, You know what I mean? I thought, Wow, that really is cold like that. Then it may be using more colors, even more different color backgrounds and try loads of new ideas. I'm not really afraid of making mistakes. I don't think so. I just try something. And if it doesn't work, try another way. That's thes

spk_0:   13:51
confidence with the fact that you don't care and you care about that. You know you're working, but you get to a point where Well, Andi, I think we spoke about this when I came and spoke to you that I think were the top drawer event. On day we were chatting and you're saying there how you know, when you first out, you try and please everybody on. You know Andi, then you. Now you get to appoint me ago. Well, my style is my style. and and the people love it, really love it. If people don't like it, then they move on to somebody else on. Have you

spk_1:   14:20
no way. Like kind. People often say what you said that I've got such a distinctive style. I don't necessarily feel that myself. You can't see it in yourself. You just do it sort of it, Aaron. Yeah.

spk_0:   14:45
So I recently saw your instagram on Dhe. You've done this at first, but what really strict And hadn't realized until I read deeper into it. You've collaborated with some work at Debenhams, so you've created some pottery ware and place and we'll talk a little bit more about that. But what I loved is you did this Instagram video where you were painting the shop window. That must be doing some launch on just how calm you looked. Just painting the shop window, people walking past you as you're inside it is it unites and people do you know, coloring in books and things like that. Is that your happy place?

spk_1:   15:22
I think completely waiting it is. I think I've discovered that and I'm so I feel so happy and lucky that I'm able be given that space to paint a mural. I mean, itwas a little bit overwhelming with people looking in, but I got used to it because, you know, it's my favorite thing. And I think I s

spk_0:   15:45
so talk about your collaboration for Debenhams. Then how did s talk me through the collection? Firstly, what is in this collection?

spk_1:   15:52
So it's called a cook and dying collection. So basically, it's kitchen where? And homework for home way. So it's plays and mugs and cake stands and china on. Then they some tea towels up on gloves, things like that for the first rum. And then there's more coming in the autumn wind, too. They're adding more to it. So, yes, been really exciting.

spk_0:   16:21
Wow. How did that come about that? Except the dream, Like, you know, when we when we did, were you the episode? When, like all the Keely came in all the kindly Theo Wells Cathedral? Yes. Okay, well, it was Wells, isn't it? Yes, because I remember thinking like, she you're doing what she did to Donna. Mean, you've got a distinctive style, and now you're creating this brand on this. They're making tea towels with your stuff on which is so exciting.

spk_1:   16:55
I think gonna be an interval. Didn't want too big an interior designer in that kind of do, you know, put into a category I think. Christ all. How am I gonna make this commercial? So that's when I thought, Well, if I like the murals, I can translate them on paper and then sort of any product that anybody wants. Really? It's always kind of been in the back of my mind. That's kind of what I wanted today. Yeah, but I didn't read, you know. You don't realize it, then it just sort of happens naturally. What you've got confidence.

spk_0:   17:37
So how did it come about then? How did the collaboration work? Debenhams. Then

spk_1:   17:41
that was a top, actually, was a show called Paul's, which is a kind of offshoot to top draw A trade shows I did holds and they came there. The design, the home where design team take their like, 18 months ago when we chatted and late we just connected. They really love, you know, They're just lovely people.

spk_0:   18:04

spk_1:   18:04
they like my work. And then excuse me. And then they wanted me to create something brand new. So I paying Thio design for the light flat painted as I do similar to my some of my wallpapers. And then what they do is cut out all the elements from that and put it onto the product, the three D products. And that was so anxiety. And then I was able to go in once a month. And what with them and say, Well, I don't like that there. Can we put that there? Can we make this?

spk_0:   18:49
And how long was the process from you from them going? We're interested in this Tito actually having something physical that's gonna be in the shop.

spk_1:   18:57
But I think it wasa about 18 months that she is a long process, which I'm not used to. You know, I like immediacy, but he has a say. It was lovely going up there once a month and seeing involving and then getting the samples and checking the memory, digging them. Yeah, and I loved going up working with them because they there are there in what was so important, so stable, so much experience in that, obviously, in that commercial, you know, shopping and brought up that Yeah, it was just brilliant.

spk_0:   19:32
Well, like must be testament to the fact they're believing you for something to take 18 months to know to go through that journey. And I'm not. That is also a nerve racking because of any point they could go. Actually, it's not working, but the fact that he kept going and you've you've actually now got it in the shop. And and again, I still want your instagram post. But you were talking about the butter dish or the teapot. What? It's got his gold knob on the top. And you were so excited by it, It just looked You've got a whole table stand of all of your stuff on

spk_1:   19:59
there. Yeah. It makes me so happy. It's been so good. And then they want to proceed further. Are we gonna do more? Put on two more product? We've got to start that soon next year. So you're exciting things, Really.

spk_0:   20:16
Oh, my God. I'm so proud of you. So let's just say say good. So you've also you've done other collaborations with people that Annie Sloan, you know, they're famous. Chalk, chalk, paint. Provide. How did that come about? Andi? What? What's your role with Annie?

spk_1:   20:33
I think that was quite soon after the ship show, I think maybe I used some chalk paint on the TV show. And then I think she sent me some pain to try out painting furniture. And then I went to meet her. We just had a meeting, and she's a bit like May she sort of goes on instinct. And then things evolved from there, and we just got on really well with not dissimilar. She's I think she was a a singer back in the day and then on all days and so her background is influenced her style in the way she works. And I just kind of go with my gut on these things if I really like them and trust No, no,

spk_0:   21:20

spk_1:   21:21
It's about the human relationship as much as anything before you even start the designing, you know, like when we were working together,

spk_0:   21:31
Yes. No intently. Yeah, I totally agree. You get you get the best out of people, don't you? And I think people buy into people.

spk_1:   21:38
Exactly. And yes. So there might be some more collaborations with them. I'm waiting to see. That's a huge Basically they taking over America?

spk_0:   21:51
Yes, I think. Yeah, they got some big stuff, but your work was on the front cover off her book recent book.

spk_1:   21:58
Yeah, she doesn't Siri's of Booker's scenes, which a kind of a combination of a book in a magazine. And guess she else meets a pain. The cover for that and also actually also did a really big mural for them for a photo shoot a couple of months ago for a news color palette that they were doing. And that was styled by someone called Marianne. Cultural.

spk_0:   22:23
Yes, it's

spk_1:   22:24
like that amazing style. So I was absolutely thrilled for to be sort of work I didn't actually make it about working with her on the same product was really exciting.

spk_0:   22:35
You must you must be pinching yourself right now.

spk_1:   22:39
I am in a pretty good place. Yes, I have to say, I'm kind of like in some ways so the hard these parties, the creativity now because I'm running a business, so I don't know if you ever flying that a lot of it is computer based and stuff. And sometimes I'm like Dr Design, a new collection of my old alma outweighs that couple rolled up.

spk_0:   23:05
Yeah, I went with a really lovely A know, a really good friend. When he's been on the podcast called Anna Jacobs, you might know her. I know she's lovely and she was the same. She's so busy running a shop, you know, heels, concession store and doing all these things that actually she realized she hadn't painted anything for like, a year and 1/2 is what I would have nothing to sell. You know, people want to come back to her, but get bored of the same thing that can't have another bird in their house. So she had to go away for, like, a weekend, just like a painting retreat, just so she could just get her modo back and actually do the bit the reason why she started the business in the first place.

spk_1:   23:44
Transforming, huh? House mess. I

spk_0:   23:48
was there the weekend. Yes. Your open house.

spk_1:   23:53
Yeah, exactly your kind. You know, I'm no, I I'm absolutely completely thrilled with how it's going, but sometimes you have to think card. I need to just switch the computer and phone off and just start painting or go for a walk. Or do you know what I was going to drink? to get some inspiration or whatever. So yes

spk_0:   24:19
is when you d a I. I found when I do nothing is when ideas When I'm driving, generally I'm driving and my mind's just going off from one and then all of you on all of a sudden it's an idea or a thought or a process will pop into my head. And then that's a new angle for my business or a new way. I'm gonna, you know, promote something or meet somebody or do something. You're wrong. I looked on your website. Lucy Tiffany dot com. Have you got a new one now? Is it looser Tiffany shop, or is it the same

spk_1:   24:53
booze? But there seems yes, I think that both aumento work. It was a problem with it, but yes, it's meant to be. Oh, so sometimes it jumps from one to up to the other. I'm checking into because I think it's because the websites evolved and changed so much along the way. That's something I don't know. It's a big, big

spk_0:   25:15
I just did. I do what? I just want my listening to be a contact you. So is yeah dot com because on there on on when I when I researched and look through your staff, you had, like, you know, you could you do drugs and you can you even create bespoke rugs and things so people can work with. You can custom. Does that still happen? Can you still create?

spk_1:   25:40
Much less? Actually, that's something. I used to do it again. I would have done so many related jobs and freelancing along the way about 20 years ago. I will. I didn't do rub design. I had a premises off Columbia Road in a shop that I shared with somebody, and I used to design rugs to commission back then. So that's something I can offer. But it's kind of on the back burner to be on this so much moving forward with the wall papers and that sort of thing. And there's never enough time todo

spk_0:   26:15
eso So true. So what I love about your war papers is you designed them in the way that they look. They look like a mural, like, I think you know is that way. It came from the idea of your war papers was just to reach so people could have a taste of what it's like to have one of your murals in their house.

spk_1:   26:40
Somebody called Bluebell Gray, who's a designer in Stop the Amazing the girl called Fi, who established that I was in Glasgow and I visited her and she was So it's, you know, she inspired me and said, Oh, you should put your murals on the wall paper She was so kind. And I think that gave me this.

spk_0:   27:05
Yeah, it's because everyone can have a taste of looking through your instagram and seeing some of the some of the things that you know you include things that people have done with your wallpaper. And just like little alcove is, well, your wallpaper look like I said, It looks like those kind of kids chalkboards or even you've got one. I can a really dark, dark blue, and then they've matched the rest of the house in the blue, and I was like, Look so effective.

spk_1:   27:28
I think it's because it's hand painted. It's that it does look like it's painted literally on the wall was, that's what I always wanted to try and achieve. So I paint them full scale on on lining paper. So then they scanned he'll be able to work on them digitally to put them into repeat pattern. Yeah, that makes sense. So, yeah, they're always painted near to full scale, so I can get an idea of how they're gonna look on the wall and in the room.

spk_0:   28:05
Yeah, And do you plan them out? Like when you're doing a mural? Do you do a whole drawing first? How do you

spk_1:   28:11
know I never draw anymore pains, But there is plan. It's in my head. All the planning on the color palettes usually planned ahead. It's just something I see nor inspired me or whatever, because there is a restricted color palettes in all of them really calm. You can throw everything in, but it's kind of knowing what works next to each other And, yeah, the space in between. And the shades and that sort of thing.

spk_0:   28:43
Yeah, I absolutely I love your work. It's like it. Yeah, it s so beautiful. And what is that? It's so lovely. You know, I've known you for a few years now, and it's so nice to see, So we get so many. I meet somebody into a designers from the world of the TV makeover shows on just how it's lovely, how everyone goes off from finds their thing, you know, very, very ready to people being into designers, They so many elements to it and they go off into product design. Or, you know, like what you're doing making making teacups and on tea towels who would have believed it and you've got a full range in a shop window at the Debenhams is just amazing.

spk_1:   29:24
Oh, thank you. Yes, I think the TV thing just gives you the confidence. I think it's so hard work. You put so much into it. You sit the greats and determined that it gives you that to Actually, it gives you so many things. No organizational skills and, yeah, so

spk_0:   29:50
PC. Because at the moment they're casting for next series of interior design masters. So would you tell people to go for the show?

spk_1:   29:58
I thought, she said to a couple of people who I know go on doing free. Yeah, that lay. And then I Oh, no. 30 now, but I I think they are, but they it's harder. It really have to put yourself out there with confidence, you know? Yeah, to do it don't. You might have the ability, but some people don't want to be in front of the camera. I didn't want you. Yeah,

spk_0:   30:27
but you do forget about the camera after the first episode. You lot of what? It's just them. Now I know it now on you just get on with it. And I think what was really nice is I think I've said to you I think we're here to make you. We don't want to make you look a fool. We're here to help you as much as possible. So utilize may utilize others. Let's get on with it, Jeremy, And create something Found that

spk_1:   30:48
you do Forget about the camera. That's the way you just get on and do what you want to dio. Yeah, everybody's so the kind of environment you're in and the people like you helping you, Everybody.

spk_0:   31:15
Well, Lucy definite is being an absolute joy to speak to us. 00 actually, I forgot my last question. I always ask the last question off into designers I asked them to describe to me. It could be a room you've already got. Or it could be something you aspire, but I want you to describe to me your favorite room. Your dream room on Dhe. While you're in this room, tell me what you're drinking whilst you're in the room.

spk_1:   31:37
Oh, God. Lex. Okay, I think it's no happening, Thio. Andi, it's going to be in a boutique hotel and it's gonna be in a bedroom because that's my favorite room because it's the only time I relax on Dhe. It's going to have a massive mural the way round it, and I'm probably gonna be drinking APPA rolls.

spk_0:   32:03
Nice. It's your mural that's all the way around. Obviously. Is it one of yours?

spk_1:   32:12
Yes, I think somebody it's no, It's serene and calm. It's not really bright kind of something because

spk_0:   32:26
you be laid there going Oh, I should have put that dot there and that flowers should be over there.

spk_1:   32:33
It probably is a completely different.

spk_0:   32:44
Maybe that's part of your genius there. That's part of your genius, Lisa, And knowing that you know that, don't you can always improve. You can always move forward if my listeners wanted to contact you. Obviously, like I say, they can contact you, Lucy Tiffany shop dot com. But once your Social Media's was the best way for them to find you lose. It is an absolute joy, and you're always such such fun toe to talk to you. Thank you so much for being on the TV Carpenter podcast. Firstly, I want to apologize for the fact that my little dog Harper, bark through a lot of that interview. As I was recording. It was like, Oh, I wish you'd be quiet, But anyway, that's what's really interesting is for people who have never seen any of lucidity. Phineas work. You'll you're gonna go online now? Check her out on instagram on Dhe. Once you seen her design and seen her prince on her wallpaper and all the fabrics. Never. Then she does. You will then find it everywhere. Every magazine you opened that we will be a little clip it somewhere, whether it's in, you know, one of the design magazines or it's online so distinctive and so beautiful on Dhe. You can't help but notice it, which I think is why she's becoming so successful. And like I say, she deserves all the success that she can get. So as we come to the end off the first episode of season three. Don't forget, you get 15% discount from my sponsors. Thorne Down. Just go Thio Thorne, down dot co dot UK and put in the code TV Carpenter If you want to contact me, I've got a shiny brand new website called over TV carpenter dot com on on their has links to you the podcasts to information about me or my social media links. And you can email me there. Contact me if you have any questions for me or you want to recommend anyone that I should interview. Yeah, get in touch on Like I say, it's over. TV carpenter dot com But all that's left for me to say now is thank you for listening to the TV Carpenter.